Guy November 16 at 9:11pm
When you said you would rather see 300 million americans die to terrorism than see america kill anyone. In any context, its the most vile comment I have ever heard uttered by man.
Robert Kennedy November 16 at 9:13pm
Oh. Yeah, that was a good comment. I mean, I also said I would rather see 6 billion humans die to 1 human than the 6 billion humans kill the 1 to save themselves. I don't see how nonaggression is vile in any context.
Guy November 16 at 9:16pm
Do you believe the Book of Mormon? "It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish".
Robert Kennedy November 16 at 9:26pm
Did you really just misquote (omit the "in unbelief") part of the scriptures to prove your point?
Isn't that the epitome of evil? Like, wow. I am stunned, right now. How is bible bending not the worst form of vileness? o.0
I'm really interested how you think that the "in unbelief" is not at least pretty important to that phrase.
Isn't that the epitome of evil? Like, wow. I am stunned, right now. How is bible bending not the worst form of vileness? o.0
I'm really interested how you think that the "in unbelief" is not at least pretty important to that phrase.
Guy November 16 at 9:37pm
I did that on purpose hoping you would know it. So knowing and believing the book of mormon. When Captain Moroni was faced with the Kingmen living as citizens of their own establishment, when they sought for their enemies to destroy them to change their form of government while Moroni was out fighting a war, do you remember what Captain Moroni did? He "put to death all those found denying their freedom." You, Robert, are no different than the kingmen. In your own words, you "would rather see 300 million Americans die to terrorism than see America kill anyone." What do you mean by kill anyone? In war? Capital punishment? You don't deserve the freedom you had to make such a statement. If you feel America is such a threat to humanity, I would gladly pay your one way ticket out of here. You lost my friendship the day you said that, and until you grow up and grow a pair, it won't be renewed. Friendship request denied.
Robert Kennedy November 17 at 7:18am
You aren't listening to me. You're saying the same tired things, the same party lines.
My stance has nothing to do with America, and (as I hope you will realize) is quite the opposite of cowardice. And I do hope you read what I have to say, and don't skim it waiting for your turn to talk.
As I have said, many times, I would say the same thing about the whole of humanity; that I would rather see every single human willing to sacrifice his own life rather than kill another person. You speak as if I've insulted your land by preferring the terrorist; I'm not sure if this is another of your games, your scarecrow tactics, or if you truly aren't reading what I'm saying. I don't prefer the terrorists; rather, I chose the most extreme situation to show that I'm not hiding the implications of my rational. I chose to put on display the fact that we would lose our lives, our families lives, in the pursuit of our Good. And I will always hope that people forsake everything to be good.
You speak of growing up, and growing a pair. I ask you, do you think Jesus, when he was allowing himself to be crucified for the Good, was being womanly? Do you think Ghandi, in his nonviolent resistance, was cowardly; the men in the book of mormon who allowed themselves to be slaughtered, or the fathers who refused to take up arms. Were those people true villians of the testament? No, Ty, you see, I'm not spouting the same party lines, and I'm insulted you would dismiss my philosophy without investigating my reasoning. Do you think that poorly of me? Why? Because I think different than you? Because I'm younger, I've been brainwashed by the media and any day now I'll realize the error of my thinking?
You speak of freedom as something that should be earned. You speak as if you believe that the moment free will, free thought, is used poorly it should be stripped. No, my argument is not about freedom, but I will talk about it, since it is important that you not think I forsake the gifts we have.
Freedom is truly great; one would have to be mad not to recognize that. But, I do not see death as the end of freedom (although such a stance would be easily defended). And more important than having freedom, is what you do while you have it. If someone was born in communist china, and stood up at Tietnam square, did he not excercise his God-given freedom? And yes, he was executed by man, but was he any less free? No. We learn from the prophets that punishment does not entail an end to freedom. Even if we were taken over by evil, evil men, we would still be able to resist!
And that is why I believe in non aggression. Because the consequences of this world are trivial to the glory we may get on high. Because, except for times where God specifically orders murder to happen, every indicator in the bible says it should not. And because I do have courage to stand up to anything, even death, for what I believe (though I don't doubt you would too).
End note: I'm astonished by your quickness to calling me a coward. Was there any reason for that?
Also, what was your plan if I didn't call you out? To let it slide? Honestly, you either consider me unworthy of your time or you think I'm an idiot; both options seem plausible, and neither seem like good conclusions.
My stance has nothing to do with America, and (as I hope you will realize) is quite the opposite of cowardice. And I do hope you read what I have to say, and don't skim it waiting for your turn to talk.
As I have said, many times, I would say the same thing about the whole of humanity; that I would rather see every single human willing to sacrifice his own life rather than kill another person. You speak as if I've insulted your land by preferring the terrorist; I'm not sure if this is another of your games, your scarecrow tactics, or if you truly aren't reading what I'm saying. I don't prefer the terrorists; rather, I chose the most extreme situation to show that I'm not hiding the implications of my rational. I chose to put on display the fact that we would lose our lives, our families lives, in the pursuit of our Good. And I will always hope that people forsake everything to be good.
You speak of growing up, and growing a pair. I ask you, do you think Jesus, when he was allowing himself to be crucified for the Good, was being womanly? Do you think Ghandi, in his nonviolent resistance, was cowardly; the men in the book of mormon who allowed themselves to be slaughtered, or the fathers who refused to take up arms. Were those people true villians of the testament? No, Ty, you see, I'm not spouting the same party lines, and I'm insulted you would dismiss my philosophy without investigating my reasoning. Do you think that poorly of me? Why? Because I think different than you? Because I'm younger, I've been brainwashed by the media and any day now I'll realize the error of my thinking?
You speak of freedom as something that should be earned. You speak as if you believe that the moment free will, free thought, is used poorly it should be stripped. No, my argument is not about freedom, but I will talk about it, since it is important that you not think I forsake the gifts we have.
Freedom is truly great; one would have to be mad not to recognize that. But, I do not see death as the end of freedom (although such a stance would be easily defended). And more important than having freedom, is what you do while you have it. If someone was born in communist china, and stood up at Tietnam square, did he not excercise his God-given freedom? And yes, he was executed by man, but was he any less free? No. We learn from the prophets that punishment does not entail an end to freedom. Even if we were taken over by evil, evil men, we would still be able to resist!
And that is why I believe in non aggression. Because the consequences of this world are trivial to the glory we may get on high. Because, except for times where God specifically orders murder to happen, every indicator in the bible says it should not. And because I do have courage to stand up to anything, even death, for what I believe (though I don't doubt you would too).
End note: I'm astonished by your quickness to calling me a coward. Was there any reason for that?
Also, what was your plan if I didn't call you out? To let it slide? Honestly, you either consider me unworthy of your time or you think I'm an idiot; both options seem plausible, and neither seem like good conclusions.
Guy November 17 at 8:01am
What would you have us do? Disband our military? Let anyone who wants to kill us do so rather than defend ourselves in the hope that they have a change of heart in the process?
Robert Kennedy November 18 at 8:54am
Are you asking for understanding or to attack me?
"EXTREME pacifism is what I want; if a nation invades another nation the defense should not exist. Every individual should consciously make the decision to become more perfect, and physical pain doesn't slow that. Killing and anger does, though."
However, it should be noted my repeated caveat; that this is a completely voluntary death. I would never wish America allow those Americans to die who do not wish to. I have always been, will always be, utilitarian-esque in politics. So if the whole of America was willing to be more perfect and forsake everything in the hope of the Good, yes, I would dissolve the Army.
Not in the hope that the killers would stop, mind you, but with the knowledge we will be better for our adherence to our faith. I don't seek any physical reward, no mercy; the entire point of my belief is that you shouldn't shape your morals by other people's actions (well... in this and most cases; there are moral decisions, like who you should have sex with, where the other person's opinion does matter :) ).
Immediately, though, I would not disband the Army. Consider it like the law of consecration; we could live in a world where the only murders were directed by God, but for now we don't, because we would not wish to force those who don't consent into such a world.
Again, an end note: I still have no clue why this is your discussion style. Were you to end your question with "What would you have us do? Disband our military? Let anyone who wants to kill us do so rather than defend ourselves?" I would understand your question. Where from what I said did you draw that I pray for mercy?
"EXTREME pacifism is what I want; if a nation invades another nation the defense should not exist. Every individual should consciously make the decision to become more perfect, and physical pain doesn't slow that. Killing and anger does, though."
However, it should be noted my repeated caveat; that this is a completely voluntary death. I would never wish America allow those Americans to die who do not wish to. I have always been, will always be, utilitarian-esque in politics. So if the whole of America was willing to be more perfect and forsake everything in the hope of the Good, yes, I would dissolve the Army.
Not in the hope that the killers would stop, mind you, but with the knowledge we will be better for our adherence to our faith. I don't seek any physical reward, no mercy; the entire point of my belief is that you shouldn't shape your morals by other people's actions (well... in this and most cases; there are moral decisions, like who you should have sex with, where the other person's opinion does matter :) ).
Immediately, though, I would not disband the Army. Consider it like the law of consecration; we could live in a world where the only murders were directed by God, but for now we don't, because we would not wish to force those who don't consent into such a world.
Again, an end note: I still have no clue why this is your discussion style. Were you to end your question with "What would you have us do? Disband our military? Let anyone who wants to kill us do so rather than defend ourselves?" I would understand your question. Where from what I said did you draw that I pray for mercy?
No comments:
Post a Comment